Great reflection. This paragraph really gets to the heart of place writing and is why it so compelling : "I think it’s about potential; it’s about possibilities and the obscure mystery and magic of place. It is probably the way creative non-fiction place writers use imagination to evoke the hazy space between truth and fiction, and how fiction writers develop place as a character. Place writers can take the reader on a journey of suspended reality and intentionally lead them to experience place in more than one dimension."
Cal Flyn's Islands of Abandonment sits somewhere between place and travel writing. She is really creative with the way she absorbs the spirit and history of a place and creates additional levels of meaning. Her chapter on the Salton Sea invokes Babylon and the biblical idea of redemption.
Horatio Clare's travel writing is also similar - in his case he is generous with himself and his own inner journey along with the outward journey, and draws this extra level of truth and meaning to the places he visits.
I'm glad you enjoyed the post, Merenia. And thank you for your reading suggestions. I've been meaning to get hold of Cal Flyn's book for some time, so I went online and ordered a copy straight away. I look forward to reading it.
I love figuring out new layers of meaning in a place. It's quite an indulgent thing to do, but it really makes you appreciate who you are, where you are, and how beautiful life is.
Your post has really opened my eyes as to the differences. TBH, I'd not really thought about it. For me, place writing is about the impact of places on the felt sense, and travel writing about the external, factual elements. Thanks for another fab post, Yasmin.
Interesting post here, Yasmin. I wouldn't disagree with you that travel writing is evolving. Some say it has evolved into nature writing or, as you suggest, place writing. For many, it is a welcome change. I, for one, am growing weary of strict travelogues; and so are other people, if the market can be seen as any indicator. Though, I suspect this larger debate is just an idola fori or, at best, an academic quibble (of which I am guilty as charged of committing). Merenia's point about Flyn's book, to which we can also add "nature writing" as a place between which the book sits, is sound and it deftly illustrates either literature's wonderful ambiguity, appeal, and power or the naked truth that we simply have no idea what we are talking about. I do hope it is the former and not the latter... :D Keep up the thoughtful posts. I enjoy reading them.
Thank you, Jeremy, I appreciate your comment and kind words.
We could spend a lot of time thinking, talking, even arguing about whether a piece of writing falls into this or that category. The interesting thing for me is that by taking one field of study, such as Place Writing, with its fluid edges - some people describe it as ‘slippery’ - we instigate new discussions about literature and I find this exciting and absorbing, and worth the brain-ache. And, the extra benefit is that we get to know of writers and poets, podcasters and teachers, who can help us on a journey of discovery, and we make new friends as well.
Hi Yasmin. Loved reading this reflective piece, it really speaks to me, thank you. I've been asked what place writing, still being a fairly new genre, if you like, on our bookshelves and devices, is. Is it nature writing? is it travel writing? and so on. Your piece, in fact your Substack which, being a new follower I've yet to explore properly, provides much food for thought. I think that place writing is firmly in the creative non fiction category. I like what Merenia Vince in the comments has to say and we were thinking of the same writers, Cal Fly, Horatio Clare... I'm going to add Rob McFarlane, his books Underland, and The Wild Places come to mind. Thanks for the follow too, I've been away from Substack for a time due to illness, lots of catching up to do! X
Thanks, Bee. I'm glad you found your way here, especially as you are also very interested in this subject. I wish you well, and look forward to your further thoughts when you have time to post them. The number of books we could list in the category, Place Writing, is growing for sure.
Hello jasmine - I love this post; you've really hit things on target when you said, "...the obscure mystery and magic of place...evoke the hazy space between truth and fiction...", and "...develop place as a character". Plugging in to the liminal space of a place and feeling its spirit is intoxicating as is sharing that experience on paper. And unfortunately, yes, it does feel indulgent to do so (as you say in the comments) in an era when productivity and technology take precedent over almost everything, including the simple act of conversation.
But it does take time, quiet time usually spent by oneself, in a place to listen, breathe and feel it touch your heart or at least begin to. It also takes effort and intention to do so and since people give place much of its spirit (I think so anyway) through imprinting, it takes time to get to know its people. Some travel writers (I'm thinking Rick Steves, an American travel writer for PBS who's superb at this) engage with place this way, but the reflection on self in place and our two-way relationship with it, takes more time than the short visit usually allows. But the surface can at least be scratched which is certainly a start and a single visit can begin an intense romance with a place that deepens as we learn its true nature.
Love this post! And thanks for the distinction between travel and place writing and the reminder of Steinbeck's Travels w. Charley. Especially loved his quote--‘we do not take a trip; a trip takes us.' Oh so true.
Thank you for reading, Jeanine, and I'm glad you liked the post. What a lovely quote! It's especially apt right now as I'm thinking about travel for 2024... more options seem to appear at every turn!
Lovely read, thank you! I am a fellow Place Writer on substack, and it’s so nice to find another one!
I found this distinction between Travel and Place Writing very interesting as it’s something I’ve grappled with myself. Have had several edits and re-edits of my About Page to try and explain what I write about. I think the main issue is we use the term ‘Travel Writing’ for a few different genres.
There’s ‘Guidebook Writing’ which is really just an information repository for transport/accommodation/sightseeing/food/drink options. Helpful tips, but doesn’t evoke the wonder of ‘Place’.
There’s ‘Journey Writing’ which is where I’d put Travels with Charley. Sometimes only non-fiction recounts, sometimes a blend of fiction and non-fiction, these tell the story of a journey through physical space, yes, but also a mental odyssey too. The best ‘Journey Writing’ always describes a change in the author by the end of their odyssey. Some of the greats in this genre might be ‘Songlines’ by Chatwin, ‘The Road to Oxiana’ by Byron, or for a more modern one, I loved ‘The Lost Pianos of Siberia’ by Sophy Roberts.
Place Writing differs from the other two again. It’s certainly not a guidebook, though of course it will evoke the desire to go to the place and see it for yourself. It’s not necessarily describing a journey either. If the author is going deep into one place then we can’t be moving too much. So Place Writing is more static but approaches place from a few different angles - history, individual’s lives, art, architecture, that kind of thing. On my substack I try to blend a few of these together to build a bit of a profile or tell the story of a place.
It’s a fun challenge and now I’ve found yours I look forward to reading about how you take it on!
Thank you M.E. Like you, I'm trying to figure it out. And I think conversations like this really help. I totally agree with your comments about Guidebook Writing and Journey Writing. I'd like to suggest, though, that Place Writing can also be a journey - certainly in the sense of a personal journey towards change. And, for me, Place Writing is definitely not static, it comes from repetition, either repeatedly being in (or re-visiting) the same place, or by considering the place from, as you say, many different angles. Through repeated viewing one sees something else, something deeper.
BTW, I really like the style you've given your Substack - the font, the coloured background - it appeals to the designer in me. I'll be following your writing. It's great to meet you here and thanks again for your considered comment.
Thank you! Very kind. Yes perhaps static was the wrong word, I mean something more like a continued focus on the one place. Though even that is a bit vague as one can easily imagine writing on something as small as one building all the way up to a whole country, or perhaps even a continent. Love the idea of repetition being key to it.
That is such an interesting distinction. And now I need to add Travels With Charley (which I've heard mentioned many times over the years) to my "to-read" list.
I write about our travels and try to do so shortly after we have completed them. But I'm also in the process of writing a camping memoir about our lives camping starting with our marriage 21 years ago. There has to be some liberty there, as I try to remember our early years from photographs before social media and before I started writing detailed accounts of what we were doing along the way.
Thank you for the thought-provoking piece (and I'm now following you on IG).
Thank you for your comments, Sarah, and it's good to meet over at IG. I tend to put more everyday slices of my life over there in pictures.
I think your memoir writing sounds very interesting. Sometimes it's good to have only a few notes and to rely on your memory because you can be freer and more creative with your writing. Too many notes can be constraining.
I've just done some clearing out at home and have ditched many old diaries - they were kept and used for appointments and birthdays and addresses more than anything else but I held on to them thinking that one day they'd be useful. Now I realise that I can work and write from my memory and imagination and have more fun with it than checking the date of this or that.
Enjoy Travels with Charley when you get around to it. I went to the library and read it there over a few sittings - it's quite a short book. :-)
My grandmother kept diaries for most of her life and was a prolific letter writer. It did make it easier for her to sit down and write a self-published memoir (that my uncle finished) before she died. Now we have a book to better know her and our past and it is such a gift.
Thank you, Stuart. I'm pleased you enjoyed it, and thank-you for re-stacking the link via Notes. I'm still getting used to Notes but I think it's a brilliant way to make new connections, broaden conversations, and learn something new.
I have been meaning to write about my travels to Morocco for some years now - once as young backpackers on our honeymoon in 1987 and then again, twice, with children and teenagers in tow. Always travelling independently and with many scrapes and adventures. I kept journals up to a point, and have my memories, but creative non fiction it will be....the memory is not what it was. I must add it to my list of projects to write.
Writing up your Moroccan adventures sounds like a fun project, Sue, with lots of different threads to work on. I hope your journals provide just enough information to prompt some lovely memories for your creative non-fiction.
Great reflection. This paragraph really gets to the heart of place writing and is why it so compelling : "I think it’s about potential; it’s about possibilities and the obscure mystery and magic of place. It is probably the way creative non-fiction place writers use imagination to evoke the hazy space between truth and fiction, and how fiction writers develop place as a character. Place writers can take the reader on a journey of suspended reality and intentionally lead them to experience place in more than one dimension."
Cal Flyn's Islands of Abandonment sits somewhere between place and travel writing. She is really creative with the way she absorbs the spirit and history of a place and creates additional levels of meaning. Her chapter on the Salton Sea invokes Babylon and the biblical idea of redemption.
Horatio Clare's travel writing is also similar - in his case he is generous with himself and his own inner journey along with the outward journey, and draws this extra level of truth and meaning to the places he visits.
Thank you for this lovely post.
I'm glad you enjoyed the post, Merenia. And thank you for your reading suggestions. I've been meaning to get hold of Cal Flyn's book for some time, so I went online and ordered a copy straight away. I look forward to reading it.
I love figuring out new layers of meaning in a place. It's quite an indulgent thing to do, but it really makes you appreciate who you are, where you are, and how beautiful life is.
Your post has really opened my eyes as to the differences. TBH, I'd not really thought about it. For me, place writing is about the impact of places on the felt sense, and travel writing about the external, factual elements. Thanks for another fab post, Yasmin.
Ah yes, Andy, you summed it up pretty well here. There is certainly a strong sensory aspect to Place Writing.
Interesting post here, Yasmin. I wouldn't disagree with you that travel writing is evolving. Some say it has evolved into nature writing or, as you suggest, place writing. For many, it is a welcome change. I, for one, am growing weary of strict travelogues; and so are other people, if the market can be seen as any indicator. Though, I suspect this larger debate is just an idola fori or, at best, an academic quibble (of which I am guilty as charged of committing). Merenia's point about Flyn's book, to which we can also add "nature writing" as a place between which the book sits, is sound and it deftly illustrates either literature's wonderful ambiguity, appeal, and power or the naked truth that we simply have no idea what we are talking about. I do hope it is the former and not the latter... :D Keep up the thoughtful posts. I enjoy reading them.
Thank you, Jeremy, I appreciate your comment and kind words.
We could spend a lot of time thinking, talking, even arguing about whether a piece of writing falls into this or that category. The interesting thing for me is that by taking one field of study, such as Place Writing, with its fluid edges - some people describe it as ‘slippery’ - we instigate new discussions about literature and I find this exciting and absorbing, and worth the brain-ache. And, the extra benefit is that we get to know of writers and poets, podcasters and teachers, who can help us on a journey of discovery, and we make new friends as well.
P.S. I had to look up idola fori… !
Hi Yasmin. Loved reading this reflective piece, it really speaks to me, thank you. I've been asked what place writing, still being a fairly new genre, if you like, on our bookshelves and devices, is. Is it nature writing? is it travel writing? and so on. Your piece, in fact your Substack which, being a new follower I've yet to explore properly, provides much food for thought. I think that place writing is firmly in the creative non fiction category. I like what Merenia Vince in the comments has to say and we were thinking of the same writers, Cal Fly, Horatio Clare... I'm going to add Rob McFarlane, his books Underland, and The Wild Places come to mind. Thanks for the follow too, I've been away from Substack for a time due to illness, lots of catching up to do! X
Thanks, Bee. I'm glad you found your way here, especially as you are also very interested in this subject. I wish you well, and look forward to your further thoughts when you have time to post them. The number of books we could list in the category, Place Writing, is growing for sure.
Hello jasmine - I love this post; you've really hit things on target when you said, "...the obscure mystery and magic of place...evoke the hazy space between truth and fiction...", and "...develop place as a character". Plugging in to the liminal space of a place and feeling its spirit is intoxicating as is sharing that experience on paper. And unfortunately, yes, it does feel indulgent to do so (as you say in the comments) in an era when productivity and technology take precedent over almost everything, including the simple act of conversation.
But it does take time, quiet time usually spent by oneself, in a place to listen, breathe and feel it touch your heart or at least begin to. It also takes effort and intention to do so and since people give place much of its spirit (I think so anyway) through imprinting, it takes time to get to know its people. Some travel writers (I'm thinking Rick Steves, an American travel writer for PBS who's superb at this) engage with place this way, but the reflection on self in place and our two-way relationship with it, takes more time than the short visit usually allows. But the surface can at least be scratched which is certainly a start and a single visit can begin an intense romance with a place that deepens as we learn its true nature.
Oh yes, Lynn. We writers have the chance to explore and recreate, in our own unique fashion, the 'intense romance' of place. I love that idea.
I'll take a look at Rick Steves' writing - thanks for the signpost, it's especially useful to get a broad perspective on other writers' work.
And, thank you for your thoughtful response to this post.
Thank you- I appreciate your insights, details and engagement.
Love this post! And thanks for the distinction between travel and place writing and the reminder of Steinbeck's Travels w. Charley. Especially loved his quote--‘we do not take a trip; a trip takes us.' Oh so true.
Thank you for reading, Jeanine, and I'm glad you liked the post. What a lovely quote! It's especially apt right now as I'm thinking about travel for 2024... more options seem to appear at every turn!
Lovely read, thank you! I am a fellow Place Writer on substack, and it’s so nice to find another one!
I found this distinction between Travel and Place Writing very interesting as it’s something I’ve grappled with myself. Have had several edits and re-edits of my About Page to try and explain what I write about. I think the main issue is we use the term ‘Travel Writing’ for a few different genres.
There’s ‘Guidebook Writing’ which is really just an information repository for transport/accommodation/sightseeing/food/drink options. Helpful tips, but doesn’t evoke the wonder of ‘Place’.
There’s ‘Journey Writing’ which is where I’d put Travels with Charley. Sometimes only non-fiction recounts, sometimes a blend of fiction and non-fiction, these tell the story of a journey through physical space, yes, but also a mental odyssey too. The best ‘Journey Writing’ always describes a change in the author by the end of their odyssey. Some of the greats in this genre might be ‘Songlines’ by Chatwin, ‘The Road to Oxiana’ by Byron, or for a more modern one, I loved ‘The Lost Pianos of Siberia’ by Sophy Roberts.
Place Writing differs from the other two again. It’s certainly not a guidebook, though of course it will evoke the desire to go to the place and see it for yourself. It’s not necessarily describing a journey either. If the author is going deep into one place then we can’t be moving too much. So Place Writing is more static but approaches place from a few different angles - history, individual’s lives, art, architecture, that kind of thing. On my substack I try to blend a few of these together to build a bit of a profile or tell the story of a place.
It’s a fun challenge and now I’ve found yours I look forward to reading about how you take it on!
Thank you M.E. Like you, I'm trying to figure it out. And I think conversations like this really help. I totally agree with your comments about Guidebook Writing and Journey Writing. I'd like to suggest, though, that Place Writing can also be a journey - certainly in the sense of a personal journey towards change. And, for me, Place Writing is definitely not static, it comes from repetition, either repeatedly being in (or re-visiting) the same place, or by considering the place from, as you say, many different angles. Through repeated viewing one sees something else, something deeper.
BTW, I really like the style you've given your Substack - the font, the coloured background - it appeals to the designer in me. I'll be following your writing. It's great to meet you here and thanks again for your considered comment.
Thank you! Very kind. Yes perhaps static was the wrong word, I mean something more like a continued focus on the one place. Though even that is a bit vague as one can easily imagine writing on something as small as one building all the way up to a whole country, or perhaps even a continent. Love the idea of repetition being key to it.
That is such an interesting distinction. And now I need to add Travels With Charley (which I've heard mentioned many times over the years) to my "to-read" list.
I write about our travels and try to do so shortly after we have completed them. But I'm also in the process of writing a camping memoir about our lives camping starting with our marriage 21 years ago. There has to be some liberty there, as I try to remember our early years from photographs before social media and before I started writing detailed accounts of what we were doing along the way.
Thank you for the thought-provoking piece (and I'm now following you on IG).
Thank you for your comments, Sarah, and it's good to meet over at IG. I tend to put more everyday slices of my life over there in pictures.
I think your memoir writing sounds very interesting. Sometimes it's good to have only a few notes and to rely on your memory because you can be freer and more creative with your writing. Too many notes can be constraining.
I've just done some clearing out at home and have ditched many old diaries - they were kept and used for appointments and birthdays and addresses more than anything else but I held on to them thinking that one day they'd be useful. Now I realise that I can work and write from my memory and imagination and have more fun with it than checking the date of this or that.
Enjoy Travels with Charley when you get around to it. I went to the library and read it there over a few sittings - it's quite a short book. :-)
My grandmother kept diaries for most of her life and was a prolific letter writer. It did make it easier for her to sit down and write a self-published memoir (that my uncle finished) before she died. Now we have a book to better know her and our past and it is such a gift.
How wonderful to have this family history. And, the art of letter writing... we may be on the brink of losing this completely.
I wrote letters all the time until college. Then I got my first email address and I just stopped. It is certainly a lost art.
Really enjoyed this piece. Thank you.
Thank you, Stuart. I'm pleased you enjoyed it, and thank-you for re-stacking the link via Notes. I'm still getting used to Notes but I think it's a brilliant way to make new connections, broaden conversations, and learn something new.
I have been meaning to write about my travels to Morocco for some years now - once as young backpackers on our honeymoon in 1987 and then again, twice, with children and teenagers in tow. Always travelling independently and with many scrapes and adventures. I kept journals up to a point, and have my memories, but creative non fiction it will be....the memory is not what it was. I must add it to my list of projects to write.
Writing up your Moroccan adventures sounds like a fun project, Sue, with lots of different threads to work on. I hope your journals provide just enough information to prompt some lovely memories for your creative non-fiction.